Okay so, I think we all realize that there's a lot of problems with a lot of the changes to the game. Which is expected, it was a huge change and there's problems to wrinkle out.

The biggest one I've noticed though, is Ninjas and their skills. Ninja skills are pretty much all based around screwing people over. Basically what this means is, if they want to train with a party in a friendly atmosphere they won't be leveling their skills.

Filch, Steal, Mug, etc.

It seems a HUGE hassle to have to drop gold every few seconds to make sure you don't take all the gold your party is supposed to split for repairs and whatnot. It's actually so bad thieves have to be GIVEN Highwayman just because Unmask is impossible to level on NB (which is a huge issue because I'm used to capping HWM before I leave the island so I can get cit asap).

Smokebomb is obnoxious to use in parties.

Steal is worse because you can't necessarily drop items to split amongst the party.


So basically when I mention these problems to other people in the game they tell me that they level these skills while soloing. Which is cool when you have good equipment and you're leveled up a bit more. But this game is mostly balanced around needing a party to train at a good pace so I don't think being forced to solo because you want to prof your most basic skill (filch).


But the biggest problem that I came across was pick lock. If I'm to understand correctly, to prof that ninjas are supposed to run out, kill monsters. Run into a town, don't use any skills, then go try to pick locks (won't bother mentioning that EVERY lock is enchanted and the interaction with disenchant is so silly broken that proffing either spell is a silly waste of allowance)...how does that make sense? Should domain lords impune ninjas so they can prof their useless pick lock? Should ninjas be forced to somehow find a door (I don't even know if it has to be locked or not to prof, or if they can prof it on an enchanted lock) with no witnesses so they don't get outlawed.

As a result I've noticed (and I won't assume I'm being told the truth) a lot of ninjas [claiming to] not having pick lock. Mainly because proffing the skill is an incredible headache. Partially because just GETTING the skill is an incredible headache.

Something needs to be done, its bad enough BW's can run as fast as them at max speed. Can I get some ninja mains to weigh in on this? Like Letha, Momoko, Vincent, Kyo, etc.

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I played a ninja alt to lvl 40 last wipe, didn't even ever prof filch past 14 because proffing it was bull****, so I just did all the easier skills, capped sb/vanish/cit/hwm/reveal etc

Also getting backstab is a load of bullshiiiit

I ****in hate filch...

Mug isn't bad because you can use 2 wraith weps and infinitely mug forever while soloing without any problems, but filch and steal are sooooo lame to prof

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I made a topic like this earlier and they told me to stfu, that ninja skills were easy to prof and to get over it.

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I have an easy time proffing filch, mug, etc when I'm in a relatively non-psycho party.

If I filch or mug, I split the gold.

If I steal from a champ I post what I got and ask if anyone wants something. If no one replies, I get to keep the junk.

But some folks still freak out when I steal in parties because they think I'll keep EVERYTHING I'VE EVER GOTTEN EVER. Even if I plainly state I'm handing out items.

So yes, all of our skills are situational. And by situational I mean if you ever use those skills in a party you're gonna get a Tier 3 element to the face multiple times.

Pick lock is completely and utterly useless. Why? Because a Lv1 Enchant Lock overrides any level Pick Lock we have, if we have it. There's no way to prof Pick Lock. Proffing steal gets you vilified. Proffing Mug or Filch makes people yell at you. And Highwayman takes 30(!) frickin' mana to use completely, and eats up your entire allowance after two or three uses. I imagine Citizen is the same way.

Smokebomb has been nerfed for some reason, and is heretofore stupidly useless and dumb to use, as well as a high-ass MP use. I think it's still 10 MP per shot.

Reveal is silly to prof as well. Unless you're in a continuous party, it eats up your allowance as fast as Highwayman does. Or seems like it does.

I haven't gotten Backstab yet, but I remember Vanish being fun to use, WHEN you could use it. That is to say, that you needed like a friggin' new moon, be at the bottom of a cave, and mobs/guards/etc could still beeline to you and spank your face.



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reply to Goddess:

That was about disguises, which to be fair use a lot of allowance.

I'm talking about overall, it's just ****ty to be a ninja.

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Just wanting to throw this in here, but Ninjas and Thieves aren't exactly supposedly known for their honor.

If a Thief and Ninja are in your party, personally, I think it makes total sense that they could **** everyone over by skimming off the top. That makes total sense to me just because they are supposed to be honorless bastards by nature.

I like playing Ninjas, and I know how irritating it can be that everyone flips out on you about everything you do. But at the same time, this allows you to do something neat. Firstly, you can just avoid using these skills in parties unless everyone agrees that they are chill with it, or you can -actually- choose to skim off the top and screw everyone over, and be a dirty scoundrel. Sure, not many will love you for it, but it allows you the option of being said douche.

People like stealing from others, and people like having an enemy. It feeds gameplay, even though it may not be the most pleasant route.

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DeshTheWraith wrote:

reply to Goddess:

That was about disguises, which to be fair use a lot of allowance.

I'm talking about overall, it's just ****ty to be a ninja.

If you read the thread you would notice it started going off to ninja skills in general.

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And yeah, it's pretty retarded that Ninjas are no longer able to be stupidly faster than others. At max speed, you'd figure the top class would be Ninja and there would be no equal. I realize that this may seem unfair but they are freakin' Ninja.

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reply to Goddess:

Oh ok. I made this thread cause I was talking to Exo about proffing picklock and whatnot.

EDIT:

@Nanie: No they should be. They're the only ones that can't affect their own movement or an enemies. They have to be faster than everyone or they just kind of struggle to do anything.

I just want opinions from actual ninja players. I'm just talking from my observations but I'm probably biased.

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I've given my opinion as a Ninja Main.

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reply to DeshTheWraith:

I love ninja unconditionally and no matter what happens to them I'd still find a way to make everyone's life a pure wholesome Hell.

However, Ninja are really gimped when it comes to a lot of things, but I see their biggest issue being that, as Deshawn said, Black Wizards can run as fast as ninja.

Speed is a critical component in the game, and due to the speed cap, Ninja suffer dramatically from it.

Korin on the Cob wrote:

So yes, all of our skills are situational. And by situational I mean if you ever use those skills in a party you're gonna get a Tier 3 element to the face multiple times.

Korin nailed it on the head. Aside from Mortal Wound and Swift OPStrike, most everything we do is situational and generally frowned upon in any party that we ever train with ever. And since Anything above Potion sucks massive amounts of **** now, and with Ninja having quite a bit in terms of health pool, and with Stealth armor doing almost nothing until like Fur+, and with Armor being the stupidest thing to ever prof on a Ninja ever (seriously Black Wizards on average have better Armor profs than us .xO!), Ninja are really gimped when it comes to soloing, which they have to rely on to prof things because parties hate us for our skills. And when you ignore our skills, what reason would you ever pick a Ninja to train with than, say, a Knight? Ninja are squishy until they get higher end armor, while Knights can go loldefendparry and massively boost survivability in any party. In fact, every class but Ninja can boost party survivability. Unfortunately, Ninja are lying, scheming ****s so I really doubt that will ever change.

However, I still strongly believe that boosting the speed cap will make the life of a Ninja much more beneficial and worthwhile, moreso than any other suggestion for them.

They need the speed. Trust me, and trust anyone who's ever mained ninja.



Considering their skills...

Smokebomb is downright crap right now since the smokebomb itself can be seen through even when stacked three times. Three turns is a massive detriment to using SB in PvP.

Pick Lock is debatable. Every domain but Tristram and Irendi Guardhouse have inn doors you can prof on (even Argo/New Banian/Aldeae for the domain-less). The real issue I see is with Disenchant Lock in that it's really really stupid that a prof 30whatever Disenchant Lock can fail to disenchant a prof 2 Enchant Lock. But, if Disenchant Lock is never fixed, then I would propose that if the Pick Lock prof is equal or higher to the prof of the Enchanted lock, then it has a small chance of breaking the enchantment, which increases very slowly depending on how much higher prof the Pick Lock is in comparison to the Enchant Lock.

Filch is fine as is.

Steal kinda needs an incentive to be used in my opinion. I remember the rumors of using Steal increasing drop values of a monster were allegedly discredited by Gaku, but if that were actually implemented, Ninja might find themselves a use in parties by actually benefiting the drops (and if they decide to be a ninja about items then just kill them off >:3 )

Mug is fine as is but I'll ***** and moan to the end of time about that useless Mug Bug that only I've ever been able to bring to light and get butthurt over.

Reveal is pretty much useless. I would suggest making it reveal all disguises on your screen so it at least has some sort of use.

Backstab is fine as is to be completely honest.

Vanish is fine as is.

Highwayman and Citizen are fine as is.



So in my opinion (and I don't care if I sound full of myself but I'm the Queen of Ninja so suck it etc), four of their skills need some refining. Those, along with a speed cap boost, would make Ninja less gimped.



Elf has spoken.

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the few suggestions rell made are great. if you're having trouble proffing because your party wont let you, find new people.

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I played nothing but ninja for a really long time and enjoyed it up until this prof system. The reason? I never really proffed any of my ninja skills until I was already decently high leveled, or until I absolutely needed to in order to level. And I didn't need to go through all the bull**** I'd have to go through now in order to prof something.

No matter what skill I'd prof I would almost always be annoying to someone else(ally-wise) or annoying to myself. Filch/mug/steal is a hassle on everyone's end. Smokebomb is just annoying to see spammed. Disguises are annoying for the ninja to prof.. etc, etc.

Ninjas need to rely on agility and their equipment to survive, whereas other classes are able to survive with their abilities. Speed is also obviously a factor, and while it would help them if they had a higher speed cap than others, I still think ninjas ultimately would need some type of overhaul in their abilities. However, I really don't see that as likely to happen.

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ive capped a ninja there were zero problems for me even to get backstab sure profing filch was annoying but thats why you solo to prof these skills and yeah its possible to steal and share drops. The walking speed yeah thats an issue but otherwise i dont see any real issues with ninjas

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