Locke wrote:

Have you ever met Quinto, ihatemyself, or Exophus? Also, I know Deckard has been effective before without citizen, Zenko too. Maybe you just don't know how to play ninja.

Flaming and speculation aside, saying I don't know how to play ninja is again irrelevant as to the actual balance of what was done to the citizen disguise.


As for what Gaku said: I was under the impression classes and their skills had no "intended" purpose, you simply used the mechanics to the best of your knowledge and ability. Which is why there's so little publicized information about the game, to allow you to play to your own interpretation, as well as domain warfare allowing you to mold the world in whatever way you can.


I'm still not seeing the "necessary" part. Not wanting ninjas to be able to kill people anonymously? This won't change that....so, maybe elaborate?


EDIT: Also gonna point out that this update is more of a hindrance to the "intended" purpose of Cit. And what would be wrong with Raromans suggestion for the ability? Not only would it be more balanced, but it'd finally give a reason to prof Citizen and Reveal.

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DeshTheWraith wrote:

I'm still not seeing the "necessary" part. Not wanting ninjas to be able to kill people anonymously? This won't change that....so, maybe elaborate?

EDIT: Also gonna point out that this update is more of a hindrance to the "intended" purpose of Cit. And what would be wrong with Raromans suggestion for the ability? Not only would it be more balanced, but it'd finally give a reason to prof Citizen and Reveal.

First off, Reveal has absolutely nothing to do with disguises.
I'm not even going to mess with it in FFO because
#1) in FFO it's useless and no one uses it and
#2) it will work differently in Terulia anyway.

I'm all for ninjas killing players anonymously, primarily as highwaymen.
By definition, the citizen is an NPC who strictly wanders around town and is not a military unit.
Why then are citizens roaming the countryside where highwaymen should rightfully be?
Why are citizens storming enemy domains and acting as tanks?
It's because players are lazy and want the best of both worlds: they want the anonymity of the highwayman and the safety of citizen.
Now each has a definite role. Use highwayman if you want to attack anonymously; use citizen for spying etc.

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You guys are being dumb. Citizen was never even that good. This update doesn't change anything besides the fact that you will have to use highwayman outside of towns if you don't want to be discovered.

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Hey look Deshawn ignored my point to target some little thing he percieved and Exophus reinforced my point, which Deshawn is probably still going to ignore.

Business as usual.

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People just want anything to complain about in this community, really.

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Suggestion I thought of while reading this topic:

Ninjas disguised as Citizens can hear the domain say of a town they are physically in.

That might actually make them good as spies, or just make everyone psay, BYOND Pager or MSN things.

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You know something else I think might work for the time being?

The easiest idea would be to either give us a pwipe or close FFO entirely. Why? Because there are some -people- that are impossible to pass in ranks because they have so much experience stored up they're that high in the world, AND they're banned. Why are their characters still around if they can't play the game, and why are they clogging the ranks when other players should be where they are in the ranking system? When your account is banned from World of Warcraft, they delete your characters entirely since you PROBABLY won't be playing again, even if they see the slightest signs of game mechanics abuse.

The alternative would be to add in a new mechanic that updated ranks based on a player's activity in-game. If player A has -5 million experience stored up, but hasn't logged on in months, and player B has -1 million experience stored up, but plays every day, why should the higher rank be given to player A? He's obviously not there to keep his rank in check and it should be bestowed upon somebody else.

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This is directed toward gaku's response to my question.....
Now that i understand how you see cit should be used the update makes sense. Does it hender ninjas for no reason... except that a few were pissing off other players... i belive so. But if that is how you belive they should be used than the update makes sense. That is really all that needs to be said about the cit update gaku made it clear what he wanted thats all i wanted to know.

Also this is directed to locke.... the way you word things are in fact a direct attack at someone if intended or not intended. You may say that you are simply pointing out a point in the discussion or answering a question but little comments such as "which Deshawn is probably still going to ignore." are attacking....and for no reason. You dont know Desh i actually sit there and discuss with him some of the points of a certain topic befor he even replies. I just belive that if your name was not even brought up in someones post y make "sarcastic statments" like that. Just making you aware to the situation.


Anyway thank you for the time gaku you pointed out how you belive cit should be used and how you intend to reinfoce that belief.

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Locke wrote:

Hey look Deshawn ignored my point to target some little thing he percieved and Exophus reinforced my point, which Deshawn is probably still going to ignore.

Business as usual.

You didn't HAVE a point. You said "they were effective without citizen". Which has no bearing on what I was trying to say. Your point had as much purpose as Kumogs.

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Oondiv wrote:

You know something else I think might work for the time being?

The easiest idea would be to either give us a pwipe or close FFO entirely. Why? Because there are some -people- that are impossible to pass in ranks because they have so much experience stored up they're that high in the world, AND they're banned. Why are their characters still around if they can't play the game, and why are they clogging the ranks when other players should be where they are in the ranking system? When your account is banned from World of Warcraft, they delete your characters entirely since you PROBABLY won't be playing again, even if they see the slightest signs of game mechanics abuse.

The alternative would be to add in a new mechanic that updated ranks based on a player's activity in-game. If player A has -5 million experience stored up, but hasn't logged on in months, and player B has -1 million experience stored up, but plays every day, why should the higher rank be given to player A? He's obviously not there to keep his rank in check and it should be bestowed upon somebody else.

The only problem I see is idling to appear active. I know for a fact Cea and Lisa (for a while) were battling for first in logged hours by idling.

Unless there's some way to check if a player is actually being ACTIVE beyond chatting, in which case it'd be the perfect solution.

Dunno if that's doable though.

EDIT: Sorry for double posting. The 2 posts were so seperate in topic it felt appropriate.

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I'm pretty sure there's a built-in activity variable on BYOND, and it wouldn't be all that difficult to implement. I'm still saying it's kinda ridiculous that banned player characters are counted in the ranks even though they can't do anything about it.

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Oondiv wrote:

blah blah ranking system

I was under the impression that the ranking system was broken.

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DeshTheWraith wrote:

Because other than stealing from people their only usefulness is the ability to disguise and remain anonymous.

Jey, wasn't it you that had a staff that cost 158 gold to use a spell before Gaku lowered the repairs?

I pride myself in that fact that all of my **** has to be in red for me to pay more than 5k in repairs.

Ninjas are low maintenance, and all other classes are jealous of it. Seriously. Where Marcus would pay 5k in repairs I would still be in the double digits.

This makes retaining gold very easy for someone that knows what the hell they are doing (thus, why I am more often than not walking around with tens of thousands of gold), which thus makes upgrading equipment fairly easy, which makes for better survivability, etc. etc..

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What's the range on the citizen-unmasking function? Before, the citizen could be anywhere on the screen and you'd enter combat the moment you clicked on a fake, which would give it away. Also, do you automatically enter combat on clicking like before?

If it doesn't already work this way, maybe clicking on a fake citizen would have the player walk up to him like normal (as though you were approaching a real NPC) and only unmasking when you're in melee range. That way the player has to actually "inspect" the disguise before seeing through it, instead of telekinetically ripping off all of his clothes from across the street. Also, on the small chance a player gets distracted en route to a disguised ninja and walks away before getting close, his cover won't be blown.

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DeshTheWraith wrote:

Locke wrote:

Hey look Deshawn ignored my point to target some little thing he percieved and Exophus reinforced my point, which Deshawn is probably still going to ignore.

Business as usual.

You didn't HAVE a point. You said "they were effective without citizen". Which has no bearing on what I was trying to say. Your point had as much purpose as Kumogs.

Do I really have to spell this out for you?

You said:

this update will only screw over ninjas actually playing the class. Because other than stealing from people their only usefulness is the ability to disguise and remain anonymous.

and I responded by listing ninja players who have used ninja effectively and uniquely in other ways, thus proving that there is more usefulness to ninjas than what you said, thus directly responding to and directly countering your point. You just chose to brush it aside because you have no counter for it.


Also this is directed to locke.... the way you word things are in fact a direct attack at someone if intended or not intended. You may say that you are simply pointing out a point in the discussion or answering a question but little comments such as "which Deshawn is probably still going to ignore." are attacking....and for no reason. You dont know Desh i actually sit there and discuss with him some of the points of a certain topic befor he even replies. I just belive that if your name was not even brought up in someones post y make "sarcastic statments" like that. Just making you aware to the situation.

Discuss better then, because you guys are either purposely ignoring or completely missing many important points, especially (oddly enough) when said points shoot down a "point" you made.


Oondiv wrote:

You know something else I think might work for the time being?

The easiest idea would be to either give us a pwipe or close FFO entirely. Why? Because there are some -people- that are impossible to pass in ranks because they have so much experience stored up they're that high in the world, AND they're banned. Why are their characters still around if they can't play the game, and why are they clogging the ranks when other players should be where they are in the ranking system? When your account is banned from World of Warcraft, they delete your characters entirely since you PROBABLY won't be playing again, even if they see the slightest signs of game mechanics abuse.

The alternative would be to add in a new mechanic that updated ranks based on a player's activity in-game. If player A has -5 million experience stored up, but hasn't logged on in months, and player B has -1 million experience stored up, but plays every day, why should the higher rank be given to player A? He's obviously not there to keep his rank in check and it should be bestowed upon somebody else.

I already explained to you that deleting their characters wouldn't remove them from the ranking. When half of Dzungaria got deleted in 3.5, they kept their ranks, so I highly doubt it would be any different now.

Also, who really cares about the ranking system? It doesn't mean ANYTHING and first in world generally just ends up the player with the most stored experience. Also, why are you complaining about banned players when only a month ago or so I'm pretty sure it was Ace? He isn't banned. If you're going to lobby for a pwipe, at least pick a valid reason. Like Dean said, the ranking system is totally broken and no one cares about it.

If you want the game taken down, use a better argument, like "maybe it will get all these people to stop whining about everything."

Also, one other thing. They're banned. If you can't catch up to banned players, broken ranking system or not, you don't deserve to pass them. Its not like they can compete anymore.

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Yes, they do give me a little bit of satisfaction when I have a higher number than somebody else. Is this a problem?

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rudimentary corruption system *
- set allowable corruption levels in DO *
- non-mobilized military apathetic toward petty criminals *
--- more lenient as corruption increases *

This sounds awesome.

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Corruption system like..Fable 2's?

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I'm not familiar with Fable 2 so I can't say.

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I like the changes to the outlaw system that you've listed for Terulia (Auto-outlaw no longer expiring by time, no more impunity for general citizens of a domain).

This will actually make some leeway into alleviating how people act a fair deal, what with giving impunity to their friends and immediately killing people inside their city that they don't like. Instead, they'll have to decide whether it's worth having to die to return to the town they get outlawed in, or make amends with the domain lords they tick off.

The fact that disguises won't be guaranteed escaping hostilities from the domain is also a good addition.

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