The thing is cit is used to disguise the persons true ability. Just nerfing a ninja for the simple fact people are paranoid is just bias. Most updates to this game are tampering with things that are already fine. Just because people seem to complain. Just wish **** would go back to how it use to be. Also Gaku i know you are very busy i also have been working 16+ hour days.... i just think sense you are unable to be directly involved with the game befor a new update is added maby you could make a post like a survey about yes or no on the forums. Giving you the option to see how the community as a whole feels about it not just a select group of ppl.

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Vincent wrote:

The thing is cit is used to disguise the persons true ability. Just nerfing a ninja for the simple fact people are paranoid is just bias. Most updates to this game are tampering with things that are already fine. Just because people seem to complain. Just wish **** would go back to how it use to be. Also Gaku i know you are very busy i also have been working 16+ hour days.... i just think sense you are unable to be directly involved with the game befor a new update is added maby you could make a post like a survey about yes or no on the forums. Giving you the option to see how the community as a whole feels about it not just a select group of ppl.

I was going to add this update to Terulia regardless, and given that it required adding just a few lines of code, I went ahead and added it to FFO.

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Citizen, prior to this, also had that nasty little side effect that people could be complete jackasses and spam/insult/annoy everyone in the domain, and nothing could be done about it because it hid the person's name. Giving one class a free-pass to grief via chat ****ery is not a good idea at all.


Now ninjas are like everyone else, in that if they're ****ing over dsay with garbage, something CAN be done about it.

My alternative to this would have been removal of Nsay/Dsay verbs while in disguise to prevent that, but we can see how this goes about before we ask for any more adjustments.

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Kumog wrote:

It's not the coder's fault that people ****ed around with it in a way completely against how it should be (For instance, a ninja guild dedicated to being citizen-disguised shouldn't be public knowledge!)

If it's not the coders fault then why is the coder nerfing ninjas for apparently no reason.

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Well Terulia is a complete new game from what i understand so for that game it might be better. I just personally think that it would be better to take a survey about this. After a survey its clear what the majority of ffo thinks and you can make a better informed decision about it. Just my opinion Gaku.

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Deshawn.

If you are a group of ninja assassins, dedicated to kill people offguard.

Why would you announce your existance to the world, letting everyone know "HEY GUYS WE LOOK LIKE CITIZENS BUT WE GANK YOU"?

The coder didn't intend Citizen to be a be-all-end-all disguise, and as he had already stated, clicking a citizen-ninja already revealed it was a fake anyway; this addition is essentially superfluous, and makes it so a ninja CAN spy on other domains, but also can be found out by people and executed by the domain for spying.

Would you rather have had it be that guards instinctively know "Hey thats not our citizen!" and just treat you like a highwayman, or would you rather it be that players CAN find you out if they're expecting you, meaning that people who can actually do things stealthily can and will benefit from this.


Also, a survey would be a horrible way to decide on this; we know some players have multiple accounts and would vote using all of them to try and swing things in their favor. The game is Gakumerasara's, not yours, so the deciding is in his court. If he wants to code it in, we aren't going to stop him. You can whine, yes, and whine you shall, but it won't stop him.

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Kumog wrote:

Deshawn.

If you are a group of ninja assassins, dedicated to kill people offguard.

Why would you announce your existance to the world, letting everyone know "HEY GUYS WE LOOK LIKE CITIZENS BUT WE GANK YOU"?

Call this whining all you want, just tell me one thing:

What does that have to do with actual class balance? Tell me that, and maybe this discussion will go somewhere.

Your complaining about what some ninjas are doing is pointless to me, it has nothing to do with me or the actual ninja class. Cause come next hosting when they're not running around being dip****s this update will only screw over ninjas actually playing the class. Because other than stealing from people their only usefulness is the ability to disguise and remain anonymous.

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Vincent wrote:

Well Terulia is a complete new game from what i understand so for that game it might be better. I just personally think that it would be better to take a survey about this. After a survey its clear what the majority of ffo thinks and you can make a better informed decision about it. Just my opinion Gaku.

FFO and Terulia are Gaku's hobby. He doesn't have to cater to you.


Your complaining about what some ninjas are doing is pointless to me, it has nothing to do with me or the actual ninja class. Cause come next hosting when they're not running around being dip****s this update will only screw over ninjas actually playing the class. Because other than stealing from people their only usefulness is the ability to disguise and remain anonymous.

Have you ever met Quinto, ihatemyself, or Exophus? Also, I know Deckard has been effective before without citizen, Zenko too. Maybe you just don't know how to play ninja.

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Gaku mentioned forums being used for communication ingame.

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Seriously, though, about that Citizen's Assassination Guild crap... An assassin's guild should actually emphasize how the ninja plays. A ninja does not announce his presence when trying to kill. He doesn't brag about it openly. He doesn't let everyone know how he looks.

The fact people were trying to play a ninja while completely going against how it would properly be played is a bad sign.

This isn't that big a deal, in that it'll teach ninjas to not just fire up a disguise and know they're home free to do whatever. It means they have to use it AS A DISGUISE, get what they need done, then get away.

Try using it to spy on another domain, chart an attack plan, instead of using it solely to get away with killing anonymously. Highwayman is better suited to that, and makes a hell of a lot more sense than Citizen.

Again, try and play and see how this change affects things, instead of taking it to the crazy extremes of "oh my god NINJA IS NOW COMPLETELY USELESS!!!!!!"

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Yeah, that whole announcement thing was hilarious. If you guys really wanted to be cool, you wouldn't have announced anything. Some of the best thieves from before the pwipe never told anyone until much, much later. That's the way to do it.

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Ummm locke why would you directly attack me when i neither spoke about you or to you. I derected my comment at gaku because i realize he does not have time to get on. My comment was to suggest maby him askin the ffo fanbase as a whole about certain updates....not take a few peoples opinions and make decisions. That includes you, me, deshawn, or even cea. So please there is no need to comment on something that in no way concearns you. Attackin me for a comment is unnecessary.

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Why do you take everything as a personal attack? I stated the truth. I made a point in a serious topic. Don't get butthurt just because someone doesn't agree with you and wanted to give their input to the topic.

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Im in no way hurt your comment was more or less worded as a sarcastic attack for no reason. I never once said gaku cater to me i said ask the ffo community about updates. Everyone is part of that input so to say he does not have to cater to me was in someways an attack. There is no need to argue about this it just dirtys the point of my post. Just telling gaku what i think.

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And I'm just responding to your post in a public topic on a public forum with my opinion. There's no need for you to get upset about it. Its not my fault you take this update personally, and take everything I say personally, and have some sort of vendetta against me.

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Asking the community for every update is a horrible idea for Gaku to go through.

1) He'd have to make a topic about every change he wants to implement in his own game.
2) Nerfs would never get through, people would just argue endlessly instead of posting once and moving on.
3) People would make alternate accounts to try and bolster their side.
4) People would constantly PK those who speak against their update vote and try and drive them off the game, all just to further strengthen themselves, which would further kill any growth this game could have.

It's Gaku's game. If he wants to nerf something, enjoy the nerf.

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This would never have been up for a vote.
If Citizen weren't used in a way it was never intended, this update wouldn't have been necessary.

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Kumog you do make a very good point. I would suggest the survey be anonymous just a yes or no if that is possible to do. Although bosting your numbers could be a problem and i could see where that would cause problems. I can not off the top of my head think of away around that so you make a very good point there. Although making the survey anonymous would take care of arguing on forums and no one's opinion would be public. If there is a reasonable solution to the bosting numbers point i will post my suggestion. As of this time though i belive you are right.


Locke i do not take updates personal i am simply speaking out about what i think actually hurts classes for no valid reason. Again my opinion...that is all. As i said befor my post was directed to gaku.

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Gaku if you do not mind can you elaborate on what the cit should be. I just want to understand how you see it should be used so my responses to the post can be based off something.

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Vincent wrote:

Gaku if you do not mind can you elaborate on what the cit should be. I just want to understand how you see it should be used so my responses to the post can be based off something.

Citizen is for covert operations in town, i.e. spying and backstabs.
For anything else, use Highwayman.

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