Raroman wrote:

But what if some **** goes down that would cut into what would normally be a training party and people abort for x and y drama? I know that at least a notable number of parties end up doing this, and losing a prof would just absolutely be annoying.

How about instead of losing a prof, using the relog verb outside of a town makes you drop a 'relog chest,' which could be say 1/3 gold and a couple of consumables, perhaps?

The point is to discourage relogs altogether.
Most people would gladly lose 1/3 gold and a few consumables.

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Gakumerasara wrote:

The point is to discourage relogs altogether.
Most people would gladly lose 1/3 gold and a few consumables.

I'm not sure though, the price of some profs make it seem a bit steep - I suppose, though, that if something bad enough was going on to warrant a relog, a prof loss wouldn't be bad to most people.

As to the 1/3 gold - I wouldn't. Then again, apparently I'm the only person that carries around 60,000+ gold most of the time.

That, and the fact that I actually forgot that you can log out by simply -closing- FFO. :B My bad.

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you could just have a friend hold all your gold and relog normally or just pick up the "relog chest" so that point i kinda moot imo.

and i think proffing is supposed to be easier overall in terulia or something

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Leveling is based on profs, so making it easier to prof wouldn't make sense.

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click citizen-disguised PC while out of battle => unmask *o

What's the point of the disguises now? If anyone can just unmask a ninja, why even have it?

At the very least make it so that proffing the Citizen skill means that if a person clicks them, the disguise may not come off. At which point that player can't click them again, it has to be a different player to try and reveal the ninja.

Cause really, all that's really been done is screwing over a pointless nerf to a class thats supposed to thrive on anonymity and deceit.

If you think about it, without disguises they're only good for stealing and griefing people. If you wanna run around PKing players as a melee, a Knight is far more effective in almost every way.

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Maby you should have revel unmask ninjas so only other ninjas can do that. Also give proffing cit and reveal a purpose now. Just dont understand why a class whos only purpose is to be stealth is getting nerfed on stealth.

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Vincent wrote:

Maby you should have revel unmask ninjas so only other ninjas can do that. Also give proffing cit and reveal a purpose now. Just dont understand why a class whos only purpose is to be stealth is getting nerfed on stealth.

Raroman domain says: Or maybe Reveal does that.
Raroman domain says: If Reveal equals disguise prof + 5.
Raroman domain says: It would give a reason to prof Cit.

Reveal = Disguise Prof + 5, removes HWM, Citizen, perhaps Vanish, of any masked Ninja in the Reveal User's sight.

Disguise + 5 makes sense because that makes it like Disenchant Locke Sonjie.

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That idea makes perfect sense. I like would fully agree on that.

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That would really well. Gives a reason to prof reveal and your disguises.

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When you click a citizen, walk up to it, and an NPC text box doesn't popup, it's pretty obvious that it's not an NPC. Your disguise has been blown at this point = you fail at life and lose the disguise. If you want to maintain a disguise, either walk around like a convincing NPC or go as a highwayman (cannot be unmasked).

And Reveal is for invis, not disguises.

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Gakumerasara wrote:

When you click a citizen, walk up to it, and an NPC text box doesn't popup, it's pretty obvious that it's not an NPC. Your disguise has been blown at this point = you fail at life and lose the disguise. If you want to maintain a disguise, either walk around like a convincing NPC or go as a highwayman (cannot be unmasked).

Which I agree with 100%, the only difference being if you've been exposed as a ninja in disguise, they don't know who you are still, just that your not an npc. If the disguise is removed, then there's a good chance they know exactly who you are, especially in a ninja like Xuo or Lily's instance, who have custom icons.

The other big issue with that theory is that whether your moving convincingly as an npc or not, players can just go around and talk to every npc citizen they see. No matter how convincing of an npc you make, it's super easy to just talk to npc's till you find the one without pop up text. It's not hard to figure out there's a ninja on in disguise (Click who, count the players that show up and compare to the number above the list. Any player you kill is announced to the world, etc, etc.)

In the end ninja's are getting shafted no matter how you look at it.

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Perhaps if you make people less paranoid about Cit-checking, you can get away with it more often with this new system. When ninjas are running around 24/7 as citizen, people will be paranoid. When it's a rare occurance, nobody expects it.

Take Spy from TF2. You can be amazing when people don't expect it, but when they know you're a spy, they're going to spycheck the crap out of you. Most people play spy sparingly because they can't figure out how to both cause a ruckus, AND not make the other team paranoid enough to spycheck everyone.


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I'm trying to give folks ideas here since they always want the new changes removed when it nerfs a class, instead of trying to work around it.

Not my fault this ends people being able to just act like retards with impunity because they can get a skill, use it and forget about it.

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Kumog wrote:

Perhaps if you make people less paranoid about Cit-checking, you can get away with it more often with this new system. When ninjas are running around 24/7 as citizen, people will be paranoid. When it's a rare occurance, nobody expects it.

Take Spy from TF2. You can be amazing when people don't expect it, but when they know you're a spy, they're going to spycheck the crap out of you. Most people play spy sparingly because they can't figure out how to both cause a ruckus, AND not make the other team paranoid enough to spycheck everyone.

It's kinda hard for people to not be paranoid of Cits when there's a Cit Guild for people who.. you know.. play entirely as Citizens? Even ninjas are getting paranoid about Cits - I caught myself AND Xuo both checking for Cits in GsH out of paranoia.

While knowing how the hell to play a ****ing Spy might help in TF2, it hardly helps in FFO when the actions of one affects the stereotype of all.

Then again, the thing is that most people think that Citizen's only use is to troll, it seems. Next to everyone hates Ninjas on FFO, and I can't use any of my skills just for the sake of funnies:

- Everyone takes it personally if I Steal, Filch, or Mug.
- Lock Picking is clearly a hostile action; why would I use it jokingly around people when it is going to outlaw me?
- Paranoid of Cits
- HWM auto-outlaws from all towns and ****s with the Heal spells (not counted as an ally but a hostile)
- Smokebomb is just a minor nuisance and pisses everyone off, the user included.
- Reveal... when the hell will this come in handy? If a Ninja is Vanished, then obviously I can't see them, and if it's a good Ninja, then by the time I know he exists I'm either dead or he's gone.

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Kumog wrote:

I'm trying to give folks ideas here since they always want the new changes removed when it nerfs a class, instead of trying to work around it.

Not my fault this ends people being able to just act like retards with impunity because they can get a skill, use it and forget about it.

Unfortunately, this doesn't make for less paranoia. It just makes it harder on the Ninjas trying to use Citizen to gain something.

Plus, I use Citizen to retro-active use Diadel as my stable domain for bank and storage - imagine if Remulous accidentally clicked me and I thusly got owned by rampaging Guards.

There was already a defense against Citizens and an ability to check them - check for text. I mean, before, if I got caught stealing from someone, I could at least keep my dignity outside of my disguise - which was, you know.. the point? >_< But now it's like, if you are caught, best to remake your Ninja with a different color.

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Kumog wrote:

Perhaps if you make people less paranoid about Cit-checking, you can get away with it more often with this new system.

How can *I* control people paranoia about citizens? All I'm saying is that this took a perfectly fine system and made it unbalanced against ninjas.

And for what? Cause people are paranoid about citizens and are complaining about ninjas?

There's no REAL reason here that I can see.

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The blunt version of my post:

Quit using Citizen 24/7, quit parading about on the forums as Citizen 1, Citizen 2.

Make people able to relax around cits by NOT ACTIVELY USING THE SKILL EVERY DAY. Let them relax a while. Let them get used to no citizen-ninjas ganking.

THEN you strike.

Catch them off guard even better, meaning EASIER KILLS when they're completely surprised, or better yet, away.

Out of sight, out of mind. If people don't see citizens all the time, they aren't going to worry. It's not the coder's fault that people ****ed around with it in a way completely against how it should be (For instance, a ninja guild dedicated to being citizen-disguised shouldn't be public knowledge!)

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Kumog's post wasn't useless, though.

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Gakumerasara wrote:

The point is to discourage relogs altogether.
Most people would gladly lose 1/3 gold and a few consumables.

But what about relogging is causing a problem that needs something like this to try to fix it, though?

I don't really know anything about how Terulia's character progression is going to go. Will proficiencies be easier to come by? Will people be expected to easily cap out their available skills? Take a long time? How will the game determine which prof point you'll lose by using the Relog command? It's just that the whole idea of making a character regress a bit not because he died, but just over wanting to get back to a domain quickly just doesn't seem to sit right.

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Sarm wrote:

1. But what about relogging is causing a problem that needs something like this to try to fix it, though?
I don't really know anything about how Terulia's character progression is going to go.
2. Will proficiencies be easier to come by?
3. Will people be expected to easily cap out their available skills? Take a long time?
4. How will the game determine which prof point you'll lose by using the Relog command?
5. It's just that the whole idea of making a character regress a bit not because he died, but just over wanting to get back to a domain quickly just doesn't seem to sit right.

1. The whole mentality behind relogging is a joke. If you venture out, you should be prepared for the consequences i.e. the farther you go, the farther you have to come back.
2. Depends on your job(s).
3. Cap was removed.
4. Random.
5. Relogging is an alternative to dying. Maybe dying should be preferable. It makes more sense than magically appearing back at your home domain for no reason (relogging makes no sense).

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